Discussion:
[Modeling-users] using modeling with plone/zope
Kevin
2004-05-30 16:25:01 UTC
Permalink
Hello-
I just recently ran into finding the modeling framework. Given my
history with NeXT / Apple tools, I am pretty excited about it.

I am looking for tools to build a new application, and have recently
turned towards python (I am an old Objective C hack)

I am wondering-

1. What do those of you with similar past (WOF/EOF) use for the web
application layer? That is, what do you use to map business objects to
webpages with?

2. Has anyone used Modeling with plone/zope? Any strong biases about
this ("don't do it" or "do this instead")?

Thanks.
Kevin
Mario Ruggier
2004-06-02 03:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Hello!

I know that Sebastien has used modeling with zope, and I'm sure he'll
comment about that shortly... (hey, maybe he is on a well-deserved
holiday?) I had never worked with the WOF/EOF framework, but was always
attracted to the concept. And, I have never used zope with modeling
either... the last application i used modeling in has been with the
cherrypy.org appserver , and i found the two to work very nicely
together, or rather there is zero interference from one onto the other.

Cheers, mario
Post by Kevin
Hello-
I just recently ran into finding the modeling framework. Given my
history with NeXT / Apple tools, I am pretty excited about it.
I am looking for tools to build a new application, and have recently
turned towards python (I am an old Objective C hack)
I am wondering-
1. What do those of you with similar past (WOF/EOF) use for the web
application layer? That is, what do you use to map business objects
to webpages with?
2. Has anyone used Modeling with plone/zope? Any strong biases about
this ("don't do it" or "do this instead")?
Thanks.
Kevin
Kevin
2004-06-02 19:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Mario, and others,

Is there a clearing house for information about the different
application frameworks (cherrypy, zope, others) that I could look at?
If there is a good clearing house, please let me know. I have not found
many articles that go in depth about the distintions between the tools,
as one might find in some of the other languages.... (I have looked,
just have not been successful yet.)

Thanks for your note!

Kevin
Post by Mario Ruggier
Hello!
I know that Sebastien has used modeling with zope, and I'm sure he'll
comment about that shortly... (hey, maybe he is on a well-deserved
holiday?) I had never worked with the WOF/EOF framework, but was
always attracted to the concept. And, I have never used zope with
modeling either... the last application i used modeling in has been
with the cherrypy.org appserver , and i found the two to work very
nicely together, or rather there is zero interference from one onto
the other.
Cheers, mario
Post by Kevin
Hello-
I just recently ran into finding the modeling framework. Given my
history with NeXT / Apple tools, I am pretty excited about it.
I am looking for tools to build a new application, and have recently
turned towards python (I am an old Objective C hack)
I am wondering-
1. What do those of you with similar past (WOF/EOF) use for the web
application layer? That is, what do you use to map business objects
to webpages with?
2. Has anyone used Modeling with plone/zope? Any strong biases
about this ("don't do it" or "do this instead")?
Thanks.
Kevin
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Sebastien Bigaret
2004-06-07 04:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,
Post by Mario Ruggier
Post by Kevin
Hello-
I just recently ran into finding the modeling framework. Given my
history with NeXT / Apple tools, I am pretty excited about it.
I am looking for tools to build a new application, and have recently
turned towards python (I am an old Objective C hack)
I am wondering-
1. What do those of you with similar past (WOF/EOF) use for the web
application layer? That is, what do you use to map business objects
to webpages with?
I still occasionnally do. We discussed this topic here:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=3851846&forum_id=10674

Agreed, this is not an extensive description, so feel free to ask for
more. To summarize, I'm using pure-python for the business logic, and
Products in zope as VC components --Zope Products can be viewed as WO
components, the zpt being the .wod+.html stuff, and the python part of
the product the component.java.
Post by Mario Ruggier
Hello!
I know that Sebastien has used modeling with zope, and I'm sure he'll
comment about that shortly... (hey, maybe he is on a well-deserved
holiday?)
I wish I was in holidays! In fact some nasty hardware problems hit me
on my personal machine, and since I've little time for that things are
slowly evolving; most of the datas, incl. current work on the project is
now recovered, I still need to reinstall a whole system --big part being
reinstalling the test oracle dbs...
Post by Mario Ruggier
Post by Kevin
2. Has anyone used Modeling with plone/zope? Any strong biases about
this ("don't do it" or "do this instead")?
Well, as you'll read in the thread referenced above my approach w/ zope
/ plone was MVC-like, w/ business-logic coded in pure python and brought
to the zope app. server through dedicated Products. The only problem
people are ranting about is the absence of optimistic locking, which
hopefully will eventually come up soon.
Post by Mario Ruggier
Is there a clearing house for information about the different application
frameworks (cherrypy, zope, others) that I could look at? If there is a good
clearing house, please let me know. I have not found many articles that go in
depth about the distintions between the tools, as one might find in some of
the other languages.... (I have looked, just have not been successful yet.)
Sorry, I don't know. A google search for "zope comparison" seems to show
some documents, and dedicated search "comparison webware" e.g. leads to
other results. Seems like you have a bunch of separate opinions to read
and summarize... BTW, you may be luckier if you ask dedicated
mailing-lists, such as the ones for zope, webware, etc. If by any
chance you end-up with a link, or even with writing your own, we'll be
interested here ;)


-- Sébastien.
Mario Ruggier
2004-06-07 06:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Hello Sébastien!

nice to hear from you again... funny I also had a hard disk crash
recently ;( A real pain...
Post by Sebastien Bigaret
Post by Kevin
Is there a clearing house for information about the different
application
frameworks (cherrypy, zope, others) that I could look at? If there is a good
clearing house, please let me know. I have not found many articles that go in
depth about the distintions between the tools, as one might find in some of
the other languages.... (I have looked, just have not been
successful yet.)
Sorry, I don't know. A google search for "zope comparison" seems to show
some documents, and dedicated search "comparison webware" e.g. leads to
other results. Seems like you have a bunch of separate opinions to read
and summarize... BTW, you may be luckier if you ask
dedicated
mailing-lists, such as the ones for zope, webware, etc. If by any
chance you end-up with a link, or even with writing your own, we'll be
interested here ;)
In case you are not aware of these resources:

WebProgramming - PythonInfo Wiki
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebProgramming
Lots of links, also to all known frameworks, plus a new article w.r.t.
j2ee

The Web Framework Shootout
http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html
Nice comparison, also with a sample app for some

Python Web Programming: Web Application Frameworks
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=26860&redir=1
Long article, just discovered it... not read yet.


Cheers, mario
Kevin
2004-06-07 13:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Mario, Thanks Sebastian. I will look these links over, and I
will certainly share comparisons that I do as well as others that I find.

Thanks again!
Kevin

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